tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post8114930548029789965..comments2024-01-21T02:42:13.447-05:00Comments on Middle East Reality: Why so many fewer deaths in Bahrain than Syria?Arnold Evanshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11445744338502151561noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-30526834549769126502012-02-24T12:41:15.717-05:002012-02-24T12:41:15.717-05:00"
1) DM: Assad is no good even without mass m..."<br />1) DM: Assad is no good even without mass murder, he should be removed because he is a dictator"<br /><br />I should also add i did not say he should be removed for being a dictator, i said he should step down. They all should.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-8378332998439932412012-02-24T12:28:43.318-05:002012-02-24T12:28:43.318-05:00"
DM: PRO-USA dictators should NOT be removed..."<br />DM: PRO-USA dictators should NOT be removed, because they are NOT mass-murdering (or murdering less)"<br /><br />When did i say that they should not be removed? Lidia please dont make things up, debate my points, not ones that you have made up in your head.<br /><br />I felt that i have been quite clear that foreign governments should apply pressure for all these countries to become more democratic, and if a certain ruler whether he be saudi or syrian starts to commit major human rights abuses that pressure should increase dramatically.<br /><br />That is what we are seeing in syria, if other nations like sa started to commit the same level of abuses the same attitude should be taken.<br /><br />"efforts to made me a better person "<br /><br />That ship sailed quite some time ago.<br /><br />Also do you feel that your country should stop sending aid to syria?Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-75438288175137758442012-02-24T12:20:44.012-05:002012-02-24T12:20:44.012-05:00"DM is NOT being logical (as usual) . "
..."DM is NOT being logical (as usual) . "<br />You can assert this but it isnt true.<br /><br />"THE SAME polling firm he trusts about happy Libyans exactly a year after the beginning of "revolution", published a poll about happy Iraqis exactly a year after the USA colonial war against Iraq "<br /><br />DM claims NOW, that Iraq is not so happy, so the war was not good. BUT by the polling firm he trusts, Iraqis WERE happy in 2004! "<br /><br />Lidia you seem to be having difficulty grasping some pretty simple information.<br /><br />In 2004 polling evidence showed that most iraqis were happy, but as the years went by and as violence got worse polling evidence showed that this was no longer the case. The iraqi people like any other population changed their mood in response to their living conditions. <br /><br />The most recent poll taken in iraq found that iraqis now feel that things are worse than they were beforehand.<br /><br />http://aai.3cdn.net/2212d2d41f760d327e_fxm6vtlg7.pdf <br /><br />Because things are worse for the iraqis i feel that this war was wrong, the most recent polls in afghanistan <br /><br /><br />http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/afghanistan-abc-news-national-survey-poll-show-support/story?id=9511961#.T0fErodmJcF <br /><br /><br />and libya<br /><br />http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/behind-the-numbers/post/poll-watcher-libya-cheers-revolution-americans-hesitant-on-syria-iran/2012/02/01/gIQApiQsFR_blog.html <br /><br /> however found the opposite results, therefore i feel that these interventions were just.<br /><br />"1) The polling firm is a b...s... factory, both its polls are non-relevant<br />2) The polling firm is a good polling firm, both its polls are true ones"Te second one is the correct option."2) DM should change his opinion about Iraq and decide it was, after all, a right thing to bomb them, "Why would i do something like that?The most recent poll in 2011 found that the situation was worse, therefore i am against the intervention in iraq." to look into facts and call spade a spade, and NATO rape of Libya - a rape, all 93% optimistic Libyan polls notwithstanding. But DM is unable to do it."Yes, lets look at the facts, the facts show most libyans prefer life more now than they did before, if you had your way things would have been worse for them, that is what the facts show lidia." I am not sure that DM has read this poll back then. I have not, as far as I know. But it seems my only info was a bit more good that the pollsters' :)"Your info was no better or worse, the poll never claimed bad things were not happening, it just showed that at the time the iraqis felt that the situation was better than living under saddam, as the situation got worse they changed their minds.This shouldnt be hard to grasp. Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-47988597069028854042012-02-24T11:55:51.789-05:002012-02-24T11:55:51.789-05:00"And USA colonial war against Iraq was(?) OK,..."And USA colonial war against Iraq was(?) OK, then? "<br /><br />Considering the most recent evidence shows that most iraqis see it as worse the war was not ok. Unlike, lets say, afghanistan.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-53195956474378032982012-02-24T11:51:33.488-05:002012-02-24T11:51:33.488-05:00One MORE time, slow, for DM specially!
1) DM: As...One MORE time, slow, for DM specially! <br /><br />1) DM: Assad is no good even without mass murder, he should be removed because he is a dictator<br />2) DM: PRO-USA dictators should NOT be removed, because they are NOT mass-murdering (or murdering less)<br /><br />if there is a logic, I am the GWBush-jr (a joke).<br /><br />I am afraid Arnold is right, as usual. One could not demand too much (like logic) from DM. But I admit that I do not possess the saint's patience of Arnold :) I could not suffer DM in large doses and have to ignore the majority of his sincere (no doubt) efforts to made me a better person (a joke) Lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-79429459814037391552012-02-24T11:44:15.697-05:002012-02-24T11:44:15.697-05:00DM :"Not many other places had a dictatorship...DM :"Not many other places had a dictatorship ruling their country over thrown". Yes, NOT many. Iraq, though was one of this places in 2004, was it NOT? So, the poll about happy and hopeful Iraqis was right, then? And USA colonial war against Iraq was(?) OK, then?Lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-88340073907656126752012-02-24T11:41:44.026-05:002012-02-24T11:41:44.026-05:00DM is NOT being logical (as usual) . THE SAME poll...DM is NOT being logical (as usual) . THE SAME polling firm he trusts about happy Libyans exactly a year after the beginning of "revolution", published a poll about happy Iraqis exactly a year after the USA colonial war against Iraq (aka "liberation"). <br /><br />DM claims NOW, that Iraq is not so happy, so the war was not good. BUT by the polling firm he trusts, Iraqis WERE happy in 2004!<br /><br />I see only 2 possibilities<br />1) The polling firm is a b...s... factory, both its polls are non-relevant<br />2) The polling firm is a good polling firm, both its polls are true ones<br /><br />1) DM should change his opinion regrading Libya or at least stop claiming it was a good bombing and wait at least the same time he waited before deciding that Iraqis were mass-murdering and Iraq ruined by USA colonial war was NOT a right thing to do.<br />2) DM should change his opinion about Iraq and decide it was, after all, a right thing to bomb them, just as Obama changed his mind.<br /><br />Of course, there is another option - to look into facts and call spade a spade, and NATO rape of Libya - a rape, all 93% optimistic Libyan polls notwithstanding. But DM is unable to do it. <br /><br />PS. Some headlines from MY source about Iraq in 2004 (the year of "happy Iraqis" by the pollster)<br /><br /><br /><br />UN endorses US plans for an unelected Iraqi government<br /><br /><br /><br />Australian investigation into Iraqi WMDHoward government exonerated despite proof of lies<br /><br /><br />Who benefits from the Karbala and Baghdad bombings?<br /><br /><br /><br />Iraqis tortured and killed by British troops<br /><br />Iraq’s illegitimate interim constitution<br /><br /><br />Iraqi journalists protest US killing of two Al Arabiya reporters<br /><br /><br />Former terrorism aide charges Bush manufactured case for Iraq war<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Slain Irish soldier’s mother condemns Iraq war<br /><br />And so on - form less than one month (the same month as the happy Iraqis poll). I am not sure that DM has read this poll back then. I have not, as far as I know. But it seems my only info was a bit more good that the pollsters' :) I wonder, how much time DM spend before deciding that, after all, Iraq bombing by USA was NOT so good? Lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-24336538471881188312012-02-24T09:02:25.556-05:002012-02-24T09:02:25.556-05:00Lidia it is you that has been shown to be very poo...Lidia it is you that has been shown to be very poor at reading your own pieces and sources in general, this was shown when you presented a source which supported my side of the argument, it was again shown when you thought you wrote the name saddat when you actually wrote the name saddam, it was here that i believe you first started accusing me of being unable to read correctly when (embarrassingly) in fact you were the one who made the error.<br /><br />Surely for once you could act like a mature person and admit that you made an error?<br /><br />"but I cannot see another way to show it. So, for DM dictators are NOT so bad as such, but Assad is still bad as such. What a logic!"<br /><br />Lidia, maybe in other aspects of life you are a bright good person, but in regards to this issue you are highly dim ( and also immoral), the piece here is completely sound and rational yet you seem to think that it is not. <br /><br />I never said that the dictators were not bad, this is a simple lie on your part, they are bad.<br /><br />However assad ( with your nations immoral help) is doing things far worse than any of the others, therefore one would rationally expect that a harsher line would be taken with assad ( as in asking him to step down)Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-63124140671692831892012-02-24T08:52:19.183-05:002012-02-24T08:52:19.183-05:00 "I doubt very much that in any other place 7... "I doubt very much that in any other place 75% of polled would say their lives are better than a year before. "<br />Not many other places had a dictatorship ruling their country over thrown.<br /><br />Look lidia the sign of a good person is to admit when they have made a mistake when the evidence shows that they are wrong, you made a mistake when you claimed that the poll did not show that most libyans think their lives are better, it does, just admit your error. I used to let these things slide but now i dont think such a thing is the right thing to do. Some people have to admit to their mistakes so they will learn not to do it in the future.<br /><br />"I suppose such results are enough for DM to rethink his sure unfounded opinion about USA colonial war against Iraq was somehow NOT great as a colonial war against Afghanistan. "<br /><br />Lidia, this is very simple yet it seems to float over your head, when one is looking at opinion polls one looks at the most recent to see what the people believe or think, if you bothered to look at the most recent iraqi opinion polls ( as in one not from 2004) you will find that most iraqis do think things are worse now than they were and that the war was not worth it.<br /><br />Both zogby and d3 found this, at the beginning ( 2003-2004) of the war iraqis felt differently but the mood changed as violence got worse.<br /><br />To say my view is unfounded when their is actual evidence supporting it is wrong and you should apologise for being wrong.<br /><br />"After all, DM believes in happy Libyans, why not in happy Iraqis?"<br /><br />Because the most recent evidence does not support such a claim, this would be apparent to you but because you do not possess the sound state of mind to form a proper analysis of the situation you failed to see this.<br /><br />What i mean by this is that most people will look at things in a balanced way, whereas you looked at things in a ideological and biased fashion, people who do such a thing will not analyse information properly, if they see something that they think supports their view they dont judge or assess it correctly or even try to find flaws with it.<br /><br />Here is a good example, you found a 2004 poll, it would have dawned on a regular person to try to find and present a more up to date one but it seems not to have dawned on you :/<br /><br />Again the evidence shows that most libyans feel things are better now, just as the evidence shows most afghans think things are better now, this is why i feel the interventions where right. If things went differently and you had your way things would have been worse for them, that is why you are a morally bad person.<br /><br />In iraq the most recent evidence shows that things are worse, because of this i feel that the intervention should not have taken place.<br /><br />This is simple sound logic but you seem to have difficulty grasping it.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-79307978141729538182012-02-24T08:29:31.211-05:002012-02-24T08:29:31.211-05:00Arnold please answer my question, what three peop...Arnold please answer my question, what three people are you referring to? <br /><br />What three people at the time agreed with your "interpretation" of the piece.<br /><br />Also arnold i repeat that you are in no position to insult others, you are the one who has gotten things wrong time and time again.<br /><br />Once more i shall point this out " "I haven't seen any verified fact that is inconsistent with Syria dealing with peaceful protests mostly reasonably."<br /><br />Simply moronic arnold.<br /><br />Ill stop bringing this up if you apologise for saying something so foolish.<br /><br />This genuinely is a very foolish thing to state, you have also attempted to try to find flaws in my views but have failed time and time again.<br /><br />After failing you tend to scurry along, such as when i showed your entire thesis to be flawed, it was your thesis and it was completely dismissed and you couldnt even properly defend it.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-51845239350789443102012-02-23T14:24:15.128-05:002012-02-23T14:24:15.128-05:00Now about happy Libyans. When I found a link to s...Now about happy Libyans. When I found a link to something like official website of the poll on Libya, <br /><br />http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_releases_for_journalists/120215.html which I cited, <br /> they were NOT enthusiastic about the results. One could see it for oneself. I was a bit taken aback - after all, if <br /><br />"Libyan population is largely optimistic about the future with up to 8 out of 10 people expecting improvements in their personal lives, economic circumstances and their country" , what does it matter if <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />"16 per cent of those surveyed said they were ready to resort to for political ends. This would mean that around 630,000 people were potential fighters, in addition to the 280,000 who previously took up arms" and if<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />"in five years’ time 35 per cent would still like a strong leader or leaders for the country. Only 29 per cent of those surveyed said they would prefer to live in a democracy"?<br /><br />Anyway, when I read the link provided by DM, I was astonished even more. NOT up to 80%, but full 93% "think their lives will improve over the coming year" - it seems that the Libyans who are pessimistic could simple be seen in borders of statistical error. I am not sure why the difference between the numbers, but it seems to me that Libyans are the most happy people in the world - I doubt very much that in any other place 75% of polled would say their lives are better than a year before. <br /><br /><br /><br />Somehow, such great happiness could be a reason why the authors of the press-release, the link I have found sound NOT as happy as their subjects :)<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I also find something interesting about the <br /><br />Oxford Research International. They did poll like this in Iraq - in 2004. see here <br /><br />http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3514504.stm<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />It seems that optimism of polled is a signature of this pollsters<br /><br /><br /><br />"An opinion poll suggests most Iraqis feel their lives have improved since the war in Iraq began about a year ago.The survey, carried out for the BBC and other broadcasters, also suggests many are optimistic about the next 12 months and opposed to violence."I suppose such results are enough for DM to rethink his sure unfounded opinion about USA colonial war against Iraq was somehow NOT great as a colonial war against Afghanistan. After all, DM believes in happy Libyans, why not in happy Iraqis?Lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-6774913030039012802012-02-23T14:03:01.368-05:002012-02-23T14:03:01.368-05:00I said several times that DM is not good in readin...I said several times that DM is not good in reading. Now it seems that he is not good in reading even HIS own posts :(<br /><br />First he posted <br /><br />"assad should step down, even without his mass human rights abuses against civilians he was an oppressive dictator. Surely such a move is right."<br /><br />Then, when I pointed to USA supporting other dictators his answer was: <br /><br />""USA JUST NOW support a lot of oppressive dictators in the ME"Did i claim otherwise?"and NOT ask them to step down, more than that"The reason why they have "NOT" done is due to the fact that none of them are committing the same level of abuses as assad, that is why they are asking him to step aside, because of the level of violence against his people, none of the other governments are behaving in such a way."<br /><br />I am sorry for copy-pasting, but I cannot see another way to show it. So, for DM dictators are NOT so bad as such, but Assad is still bad as such. What a logic!Lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-92214420648510036332012-02-23T13:36:09.874-05:002012-02-23T13:36:09.874-05:00I wish I had smarter commenters who disagree with ...I wish I had smarter commenters who disagree with me, but I don't wish I had no commenters who disagree with me.<br /><br />Dermot is providing a useful service to this blog. Not doing as good a job as I'd wish, but also probably doing the best he can.Arnold Evanshttp://mideastreality.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-41509813818299912702012-02-23T08:44:34.207-05:002012-02-23T08:44:34.207-05:00Sineva if you have a problem with my views please ...Sineva if you have a problem with my views please provide a counter argument with some evidence instead of attacking with petty insults. Otherwise the sinevas of the world can have their posts defeated with the simple response of "grow up"Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-71349040712781262272012-02-23T08:42:50.418-05:002012-02-23T08:42:50.418-05:00"On this, three people agreed with my interpr..."On this, three people agreed with my interpretation of the statement. None agreed with yours."<br />"Maybe you're just stupid."<br /><br />Projecting your faults onto me ;)<br /><br />Lets just oncemore look at your brilliant insight into syria.<br /><br />What three people?<br /><br />Again arnold its very clear what was written, you completely and embarrassingly messed it up even though it was in plain english.<br /><br />Wise up.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-44656723744374531472012-02-23T01:35:51.662-05:002012-02-23T01:35:51.662-05:00The ONLY result of the poll which has something wi...The ONLY result of the poll which has something with "better" for Libyans was such "<br /> It finds that the Libyan population is largely optimistic about the future with up to 8 out of 10 people expecting improvements in their personal lives, economic circumstances and their country" - so they are NOT better of, or at least believe to be. They EXPECT to be. Given the nice result of NATO bombing and armed bands shelling, I suppose this mean Libyan are NOT so prosperous just now, but still are naive enough to hope for something better than today NOT so bright reality. <br /><br /><br /><br />Another interesting result is such - the same quantity - <br /><br /> 81 percent -see as <br /><br />The most trusted institution - Libya's National Transitional Council (NTC). Given that NO ONE (at least officially) knows who are the guys exactly (I wonder why?), it is a great faith :) More important, a lot of people, including Western supporters of NATO bombing, admit that the most trusted NTC is NOT controlling the armed bands murdering and torturing whom they please. In short, it seems that Libyans (if one could trust the poll) are a bit naive, to put it mildly. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Regarding Assad as a dictator - one more time DM shows that Arnold is right calling DM not too smart - USA JUST NOW support a lot of oppressive dictators in the ME, and NOT ask them to step down, more than that, USA arm them while they are oppress their people, praise them and TOGETHER with them demand that Assad step down. So much for "oppressive dictator" argument by DM :( Arnold, by the way, was also right to point, that if Obama really was against dictators, NOT against Syria an obstacle for Zionist colonialism, USA would NOT need to stir civil war with foreign support in all those states ruled by USA puppet dictators. USA could simply say - step down, or we stop support you against your own people, and it would be enough. But Obama or every other USA president is NOT going to say it. They would support (and, if needed, to use arms) to keep the majority of the ME states NOT a danger for Zionist colonization of Palestine. The arming of Syria fanatic sectarian rebels (and non-Syrian ones) by USA is NOT because USA are against dictators, but because Assad is NOT a Zionist lackey.<br /><br />OK, I am a bit tired :) My next post, after some rest, will be why 2+2=4 :)Lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-8574306378670751802012-02-23T00:34:33.062-05:002012-02-23T00:34:33.062-05:00Dear Arnold
2 statements come to ...Dear Arnold <br /> 2 statements come to mind when reading Dermots posts:<br />The first:There are none so blind as those who will not seeThe second:If you wrestle with a pig,you get covered in mudI admire your tenacity Arnold when it comes to dealing with the Dermots of the world,but surely even you must be willing to draw the line between ignorance and stupidity??Sinevanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-63676930346749491552012-02-22T22:40:42.237-05:002012-02-22T22:40:42.237-05:00I recommend you do the same, if you did this previ...<i>I recommend you do the same, if you did this previously you might have <br />understood what was written in plain english in regards to carter and <br />the nyt.</i><br /><br />On this, three people agreed with my interpretation of the statement. None agreed with yours.<br /><br />Maybe you're just stupid.Arnold Evanshttp://mideastreality.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-91781837973080288332012-02-22T20:56:45.647-05:002012-02-22T20:56:45.647-05:00Arnold im sorry that you got tangled up in your ow...Arnold im sorry that you got tangled up in your own mess and that it probably is infuriating you.<br /><br />But your foolishness in this situation is not my fault so there is no need to project your faults onto me.<br /><br />You are trying to defend russias role in the matter and claimed that if the us did something similar you again would support it.<br /><br />But then you highlight something that the us is doing now which is far more minor than what russia is doing now and what the us did in your alternative scenario. You then go on to criticise it.<br /><br />This is a very hypocritical action.<br /><br />Ill try to break it down further for you.<br /><br />You said that the alternative us actions defending sa was right when sa was doing something highly oppressive.<br /><br />You then turned around and said that actual us supportive of sa when it is engaging in far lesser actions in terms of aggression is wrong.<br /><br />Logic would dictate that if only one of them is wrong it would be the us supporting the sa when it was engaging in syria style actions. Geddit.<br /><br />"<br />I invite you to reread the previous post more slowly and carefully and maybe show it to someone you trust and ask them to explain."<br /><br />I recommend you do the same, if you did this previously you might have understood what was written in plain english in regards to carter and the nyt.<br /><br />You would not have made that obvious mistake.<br /><br />"Reread the post I wrote in response to when you posted a link to the video of protesters being shot in Syria"<br /><br />I recall posting that link, after you claimed that you have seen no evidence that assad forces had not, from what youve seen, been treating the protesters reasonably.<br /><br />That is something that cannot be let to slide, it truly is one of the most foolish things written about the situation, after months of reports from human rights groups stating otherwise. All of this flying over your head and no doubt leaving a parting in your hair.<br /><br />The fact that you have not apologized for getting something so wrong speaks volumes.<br /><br />As for rereading it, i did, i would in turn advise you to reread my response which again highlights the flaws in your argument. <br /><br />" Yes. If it was reversed, and the US averted a civil war then the US would be a hero."<br /><br />My response to this that you even wrote down demolishes your claim quite nicely.<br /><br />Russia prevented a civil war (rolls eyes)<br /><br />"If you can't understand the English language, there's nothing I can do for you."<br /><br />Oh, i can understand it quite nicely, you on the other-hand.....<br /><br />"You think you disagree with me but you don't."<br /><br />Ridiculous, you cant debate without having holes shot into your theories so now you opt for the entire " oh you actually have my view but you dont know it"<br /><br />Pfft!<br /><br />I believe assad is the primary cause of the problems in syria, the best option to save lives would be for him to step aside.<br /><br />Russia did not do anything to prevent a civil war, it merely gave him cover for his actions while giving him mass aid and support, russia is wrong to do this.<br /><br />Your claim that the violence in syria would only be at bahrains level if obama didnt, in your view, tolerate arms being sent to the rebels is so far fetched that id be embarrassed to jokingly say it in public.<br /><br />The reason why violence is worse is due to assads mass human rights abuses against civilians, something that you were so clueless about you thought that<br /><br />"I haven't seen any verified fact that is inconsistent with Syria dealing with peaceful protests mostly reasonably."<br /><br />Again i repeat you are willing to allow an oppressive ruler remain in power just because he has a hostile stance towards israel, you are no better than those which you claim support oppressive governments to stay in power for they are for israel.<br /><br />Just the other-side of the coin :/Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-80199906058240303862012-02-22T18:29:24.131-05:002012-02-22T18:29:24.131-05:00Hang on one moment, you are for the us behaving li...<i>Hang on one moment, you are for the us behaving like russia (supporting syria) if sa was behaving like syria, but then you turn around and claim that in the current and actual scenario the us should not behave as russia does by cutting off support.</i> <br /><br />You missed the comparisons. You don't understand which things I'm saying are better than which other things. I'm pretty sure this is just a case of you not being able to understand what I write, it's the second time I wrote it and I feel like this was just as clear.<br /><br />No kind or amount of arguing is going to make you smarter than you are. I invite you to reread the previous post more slowly and carefully and maybe show it to someone you trust and ask them to explain.<br /><br />Reread the post I wrote in response to when you posted a link to the video of protesters being shot in Syria, then reread the previous post. When you understand what really should be an uncontroversial set of assertions comparing the moralities of three different situations I'm pretty sure you'll agree with those assertions.<br /><br />Also "if" and "then". You're acting as if you don't understand how they work:<br /><br />Me: If the author this piece is right that Russia and China averted a civil war then they are heroes.<br /><br />DM: You called Russia a hero. Would you say that for the US if it was reversed?<br /><br />Me: Yes. If it was reversed, and the US averted a civil war then the US would be a hero.<br /><br />DM: But Russia didn't avert a civil war. And that author somewhere else questioned 9/11.<br /><br />If you can't understand the English language, there's nothing I can do for you.<br /><br />Read it all more slowly. You think you disagree with me but you don't.Arnold Evanshttp://mideastreality.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-88898053222766865272012-02-22T17:30:09.844-05:002012-02-22T17:30:09.844-05:00The reason for the greater amounts of death is due...The reason for the greater amounts of death is due to the syrian government being much more violent to its citizens. The available evidence also showed that it is a more oppressive government.<br /><br />"Obama is guilty of, and you support Obama, in at least failing to oppose vastly greater amounts of death."<br /><br />Assad is guilty of the abuses that has occurred in syria, these can end if he stood down but he refuses, This is the main cause of violence and this is what you support. <br /><br />Again arnold you are not reliable when it comes the issue, you simply have simplistic bimboesque views, how else can one explain this comment that you made<br /><br />" "I haven't seen any verified fact that is inconsistent with Syria dealing with peaceful protests mostly reasonably. "<br /><br />Only someone detached from reality and completely poorly informed could make such a statement.<br /><br />The same type of person who thinks that the death figure which in its thousands would only be in the dozens if a certain person didnt tolerate an action which you believe he tolerates when such an action has little or no effect for the weapons in syria come from syrias own arm depots which anti-assad forces have gotten access to.<br /><br /><br /> Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-7661063262956635402012-02-22T17:09:17.049-05:002012-02-22T17:09:17.049-05:00" If by vetoing a resolution against Saudi Ar..." If by vetoing a resolution against Saudi Arabia, the US manages to prevent the civil war that would have resulted from the Russian program, then the US is a hero."<br />Actually if the situation was like syria such an action would not have prevented a civil war. It didnt work in syria, it would have not worked in this scenario if they were actually were the same.<br /><br />"In that scenario, the US will have saved thousands of lives"<br /><br />Again if the us vetoed a resolution like the one rejected by russia recently thousands of lives would not have been saved. The previous resolution would not have implemented any measures which would have done such a thing.<br /><br />"It's only because you're both blinded by your agenda"<br /><br />What agenda is this?<br /><br />"and not very smart"<br /><br />Ha.<br /><br />"the US can and does not in real life, simply withdraw its active support for the Saudi dictatorship."<br /><br />Hang on one moment, you are for the us behaving like russia (supporting syria) if sa was behaving like syria, but then you turn around and claim that in the current and actual scenario the us should not behave as russia does by cutting off support.<br /><br />This is an irrational position, one would if anything expect a country such as the us or russia to behave far harsher when they are committing syrias current actions.<br /><br />"In real life, the US is complicit in the oppression of over 25 million people in Saudi Arabia."<br /><br />Yet in your scenario if the sa government was being even worse to its people and the us behaved as russia did you would find this acceptable.<br /><br />Also by this logic russia is complicit in the oppression of the syrian people today, yet you consider russia to be a possible hero for its actions and have not called on russia to drop its support of assad.<br /><br />" All it has to do for that is oppose civil war."<br /><br />It can do that by telling assad he should step down.<br /><br />"Dermot, you're not going to understand this post. I've written this before and you didn't understand then. I wish I had smarter commenters who disagree with me. "<br />Youve written a bit about syria and if has been incredibly weak and flawed, this piece is no exception.<br /><br />Again no are in no position to judge others when you wrote that comment about syrias protesters and assads treatment of them. That comment truly showed that you have no idea what you are on about when it comes to the issue at hand.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-3445877415532681192012-02-22T15:52:43.317-05:002012-02-22T15:52:43.317-05:00Let's reverse it. Russia's allies and clie...Let's reverse it. Russia's allies and clients, possibly in coordination with Russia but at least with no even verbal opposition from Russia, is arming resistance to the Saudi monarchy.<br /><br />If by vetoing a resolution against Saudi Arabia, the US manages to prevent the civil war that would have resulted from the Russian program, then the US is a hero.<br /><br />In that scenario, the US will have saved thousands of lives.<br /><br />Of course I would support that action by the US.<br /><br />It's only because you're both blinded by your agenda and not very smart that you don't realize this has been my position all along.<br /><br />Further, while the US could be heroic in that contrived scenario by preventing a civil war, the US can and does not in real life, simply withdraw its active support for the Saudi dictatorship. For example no training and equipping a new force of 30,000 troops.<br /><br />In real life, the US is complicit in the oppression of over 25 million people in Saudi Arabia.<br /><br />Iran would be more moral than it is now to cut all support for Syria unless Syria gracefully transitions to a democratic government, especially if Iran helps Syria ensure that the US is unable to subvert that democracy as it did in Iran in 1953 and tried in Palestine/Gaza in 2006.<br /><br />But Iran doesn't have to do that to be more moral than the US today. All it has to do for that is oppose civil war.<br /><br />Dermot, you're not going to understand this post. I've written this before and you didn't understand then. I wish I had smarter commenters who disagree with me.Arnold Evanshttp://mideastreality.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-21027681302863233452012-02-22T15:31:14.425-05:002012-02-22T15:31:14.425-05:00As in the title, fewer lost lives in Bahrain, not ...As in the title, fewer lost lives in Bahrain, not because on dictator is more willing to give up power, but because there is no foreign-supported (with Obama's tolerance and possibly outright coordination by his administration) armed opposition.<br /><br />There could be Bahrain-levels of death in Syria. Too much but far better than what we see.<br /><br />Obama is guilty of, and you support Obama, in at least failing to oppose vastly greater amounts of death.Arnold Evanshttp://mideastreality.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-58343222376010649542012-02-22T15:20:42.970-05:002012-02-22T15:20:42.970-05:00The factors under Obamas control are indeed second...The factors under Obamas control are indeed secondary when it comes to preventing violence in syria, the primary factor that can help end this is for assad to step aside and allow for elections.<br /><br />In regards to morality, it is always moral to approve of the action which will cost the least lives, obama is supporting such an action, you are not. <br /><br />"Actions or failure to act that, like Obama's, in the real world can be expected to cost thousands of lives"<br /><br />It depends on the action, some may cost lives, others may save lives.<br /><br />"render a negative moral judgment against him. "<br /><br />Again a negative judgement can be passed on those advocating a scenario which will cost excess lives, in this regards i am putting a negative judgement on you for supporting or appearing to support ( hard to tell because you didnt answer my question) an option which will cost lives, assad staying in power and not stepping down to hold free elections.<br /><br />Again surely even without the mass violence you would advocate assad stepping down. He does oppress people after all? Please dont dodge.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.com