tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post5919434184680515741..comments2024-01-21T02:42:13.447-05:00Comments on Middle East Reality: Netanyahu's office official statement: Iran is the greatest threat to IsraelArnold Evanshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11445744338502151561noreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-6562022590964916542012-01-25T14:36:05.711-05:002012-01-25T14:36:05.711-05:00Actually they mean what they mean as defined by an...Actually they mean what they mean as defined by an english dictionary.<br /><br />Also whats with the Humpty Dumpty reference.<br /><br />" but DM still sticks to "his" meaning of words."<br /><br />"His" meaning the actual meaning of the words.<br /><br />"Never mind, people still could read your posts and DM comments and see who is closer to reality of the ME (and beyond)"<br /><br />Indeed they can, they will also see arnold asking for someone defining sa as a threat and getting it. Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-16855663461068575242012-01-25T14:30:36.471-05:002012-01-25T14:30:36.471-05:00Again you have contradicted yourself once more arn...Again you have contradicted yourself once more arnold, and it such a short post also.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-4454663548316969162012-01-25T14:28:54.124-05:002012-01-25T14:28:54.124-05:00"Actually, to say a threat is minimal is to s..."Actually, to say a threat is minimal is to say there is, in practical terms, no threat. That's kind of how the English language works."<br />Actually the way of saying no threat is to say no threat, simple.<br /><br />Again you requesting someone referring to sa as a threat and you got it arnold, you also got my link showing how israel thought sa was a hostile actor.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-13469065178031092792012-01-25T12:37:45.395-05:002012-01-25T12:37:45.395-05:00Actually, to say a threat is minimal is to say the...Actually, to say a threat is minimal is to say there is, in practical terms, no threat. That's kind of how the English language works.<br /><br />But nobody anywhere describing Saudi Arabia as an actual, and not a "minimal" threat? Anywhere?Arnold Evanshttp://mideastreality.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-34044914048852267652012-01-25T12:32:01.063-05:002012-01-25T12:32:01.063-05:00Arnold, I suppose DM is a bit like Humpty-Dumpty -...Arnold, I suppose DM is a bit like Humpty-Dumpty - words (like 'treat", "anti-Semitism" or "independent") mean waht DM wants them to mean :)<br /><br />One could get blue of face, but DM still sticks to "his" meaning of words. Very comfortable, I admit. <br /><br />Never mind, people still could read your posts and DM comments and see who is closer to reality of the ME (and beyond) Lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-75008235081940688302012-01-25T11:52:24.335-05:002012-01-25T11:52:24.335-05:00Arnold, you asked for someone saying sa is a threa...Arnold, you asked for someone saying sa is a threat, you got it. Also i provided a link which showed that israelis consider sa was hostile showing that your earlier analysis to be flawed.<br /><br />"I get that. Nobody else does."<br /><br />You just contradicted yourself, in your first paragraph you said that someone did, now in the space of a line or so you are saying something different.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-74502344086449097332012-01-25T11:14:44.799-05:002012-01-25T11:14:44.799-05:00In the whole internet, the only place you've s...In the whole internet, the only place you've shown us of an Israeli leader, official or supporter describing Saudi Arabia using the word "threat" says the threat Saudi Arabia poses to Israel is minimal.<br /><br />Minimal, meaning the smallest amount possible.<br /><br />You say Saudi Arabia is a threat. I get that. Nobody else does. Either you or everyone else is wrong.Arnold Evanshttp://mideastreality.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-32343981748446432702012-01-25T09:06:36.639-05:002012-01-25T09:06:36.639-05:00(a joke)
Again lidia jokes are meant to be funny, ...(a joke)<br />Again lidia jokes are meant to be funny, the only funny thing that happened here was when you wrote saddam instead of sadat and then criticised me for reading what you actually wrote.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-67427418853611134372012-01-24T13:40:07.969-05:002012-01-24T13:40:07.969-05:00OK, I admit that I have nothing new to say regardi...OK, I admit that I have nothing new to say regarding "threat" of SA and not enough threat from Iran to Israel. Dixi. <br /><br />Of course, DM is free to comment more on this topic. I am sure he could after all made SA rulers a "threat" to Israel, even against the wishes of both sides (a joke)Lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-74878246377868763582012-01-24T13:38:47.551-05:002012-01-24T13:38:47.551-05:00Im afraid that you have got it the wrong way round...Im afraid that you have got it the wrong way round, i am the one calling things as the available evidence presents them, you are the one seeing things as you wish to see them for reasons of bias.<br /><br />SA is an independent nation and it does have poor relations with israel.<br /><br />I said that the iranian people dont have the ability to remove the supreme leader if he doesnt wish to be removed under the current political system and that it is an oppressive state with poor press freedom.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-1044410571542143032012-01-24T13:31:15.816-05:002012-01-24T13:31:15.816-05:00 "and the wars in Afghanistan and Libya (whic... "and the wars in Afghanistan and Libya (which DM loves)"<br />I think they were just, and the available evidence suggests most of the citizens of these nations believe so too.<br /><br />So, his voters got a lot for their votes, as usual in democracy (a joke). <br /><br />Actually barack always claimed that he would increase efforts in afghanistan and taking into account the strong republican presence he has made a decent effort in full filling hos promises.<br /><br />"So, I suppose "people" in USA who are afraid of war against Iran should just buy a bombshelter and do not worry more"<br /><br />If you actually think that a war is going to occur your analysis regarding the us-iran stand off is not very good.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-25556976829565327992012-01-24T13:17:05.228-05:002012-01-24T13:17:05.228-05:00"the truth being Iran as an independent state..."the truth being Iran as an independent state COULD be, by reason of its people being hostile to Zionism."<br />Again the flaw with this argument is that the feeling of the people is irrelevant in iran when it comes to major decisions so this is not a factor.<br /><br />"Iran is a threat to THIS freedom of Israel. All else, including DM words are just words."<br /><br />Unlikely to be too significant, again iran is unlikely to make a bomb and if it did it might not be too effective. Arab nations went to actual war with israel in 73 when it had an actual bomb.<br /><br />"Israel is NOT claiming SA as a threat. "<br /><br />Again as explained the israelis do see sa as behaving as a hostile threat, this is shown by wikileaks. Facts also showed that relations between the two are not good.<br /><br />"Again, Arnold explained WHY Zionists are not afraid of SA -lackey of USA. "<br /><br />He made the argument but it didnt hold up to scrutiny.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-56875151972810223202012-01-24T13:09:06.717-05:002012-01-24T13:09:06.717-05:00I am sorry. it was a JOKE (about DM and stupid Gre...I am sorry. it was a JOKE (about DM and stupid Greens"<br /><br />About people who refuse and so on. Yes, as far as I know USA people did vote for Obama who promised them a lot (including closing the Guantanomo). Obama was elected as "anti-war". He did ended USA occupation of Iraq (more or less) but it was NOT his fault. He tried very hard to prolong it, but even USA is not almighty, and the wars in Afghanistan and Libya (which DM loves) just took all spare warpower. But at least the Nobel prize for peace Obama did all he might to prolong another not-so-popular (even though not with DM) war in Afghanistan and even escalated it. So, his voters got a lot for their votes, as usual in democracy (a joke).<br /><br />But now it is even more funny (a joke). Almost all chaps who really could be elected are calling for war against Iran (Obama is NOT saying that he would NOT attack Iran, and do as much as he could to provoke Iran). Ron Paul is against this war, and because of it he has NO chance to even get a nomination (it is almost only difference he has with all others, including Obama). So, I suppose "people" in USA who are afraid of war against Iran should just buy a bombshelter and do not worry more (a joke, a very sad one). Lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-66801665970638032092012-01-24T12:57:02.501-05:002012-01-24T12:57:02.501-05:00"and Saudis are openly USA lackeys and are NO..."and Saudis are openly USA lackeys and are NOT a threat to Israel unlike Iran"<br />Such a statement doesnt need to be explained for it isnt true. <br /><br />"maybe the Moon influence (a joke) "<br /><br />I guess our definitions of what constitutes a joke is quite different.<br /><br />"Sure, relations with Israel by Turkey are getting better every day "<br /><br />I never claimed that, i said there relations are better than the saudi israeli relations, this is true.<br /><br />"of USA colonial war against Iraq"<br /><br />I think the war on iraq was a mistake but it wasnt a colonial war.<br /><br />" The answer of democratically elected highest rulers? More war, of course."<br /><br />And if the peole feel strongly about the issue the can refuse to vote for him and instead vote for a candidate more to their liking. As opposed to having no chance like the iranians.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-62301214987460011312012-01-24T12:56:10.393-05:002012-01-24T12:56:10.393-05:00Now I want to tell you a tale of Hodja Nasreddin, ...Now I want to tell you a tale of Hodja Nasreddin, the great hero of folk stories in the ME and beyond.<br /><br />Once he was duping a greedy owner of watering source for impoverished village in order to get water for the poor toilers. Hodja told the owner that his donkey is an enchanted prince, who should be returned to his royal father for suitable reward. The owner agreed to exchange the pond for the donkey. But it had to be done legally. How could one legally change a very precious water source in a dry country for an ass? The most sly lawyer did it. First, he demeaned the value of a pond, calling it "a pond near the garden", as if it was something unimportant. But still - an ass? So, the lawyer asked Hodja, how much was the ass's weight, named the ass "Silver", and the pond was exchanged for about 400 pounds of silver.<br /><br />DM faces a task not unlike the lawyer. He needs to equate Iran and Saudi Arabia. Task impossible? Not at all for DM. Just made SA independent of USA and a threat to Israel, and Iran not at all democratic and not at all a threat (or not more than SA). DEAL! The ass of Saudis' value is the same as Iranian pond of fresh water for dry climate. (it was joke, of course).Lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-54409685149552219062012-01-24T12:45:06.762-05:002012-01-24T12:45:06.762-05:00Who said that i considered them to be stupid?
Tho...Who said that i considered them to be stupid?<br /><br />Those who marched marched because they did not trust the elction results and others wanted greater levels of freedom, i dont see anything wrong with that.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-24145225518712060352012-01-24T12:41:03.084-05:002012-01-24T12:41:03.084-05:00So, what about all this noise from "Greens&qu...So, what about all this noise from "Greens" in Iran about how their votes were "stolen" (and all support from USA for those claims but NOT any word from USA about Saudi king, but prize for "reforms").<br /><br />If elections of president of Iran mean even less as selections of crown prince in SA, why all pro-USA well-to-do Iranians aka "reformers" even bother? Sure they are not THAT stupid as DM pictures them? Lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-87547831671476018572012-01-24T12:40:44.866-05:002012-01-24T12:40:44.866-05:00"Now regarding Saudi (and other Zionist lacke..."Now regarding Saudi (and other Zionist lackeys) "<br /><br />Saudi arabia isnt a zionist lackey.<br /><br />"Note to DM (Sadat of Egypt is NOT the same as Saddam of Iraq) :) "<br />Im aware of this, it was you who made the spelling error.<br /><br />" Zionists always cry "anti-Semitism" if somebody dares to speak out against Zionism. Zionists even try formally insert their definition into dictionaries "<br /><br />Depends on the zionist.<br /><br />" They tell truth, also because traditionally Jews in the ME were part of society and often quite a prosperous part."<br /><br />Jews overall were second class citizens.<br /><br />"Saudi rulers indulge in anti-Semitism in particular. "<br /><br />I dont recall claiming otherwise.<br /><br /><br />"Zionists are not bothered by Saudi REAL anti-Semitism. "<br /><br />I provided an example which holds out, dershowitz is critical of saudi arabias attitude towards jews and others and calls it apartheid. To say zionists are not bothered by saudi arabias anti semitism is factually untrue.<br /><br />"So, D misuse and abuse term "aparteid" which means "having different laws for colonialist and colonized people" (see South Africa before 1994 and Israel now)."<br /><br />Apartheid is "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime."<br /><br />This applies to south Africa, whether it applies to israel is debatable some like falk say yes while others like goldstone say no.<br /><br />"excluding their masters the White men "<br /><br />White men are not their masters.<br /><br /><br />"So, D, who is calling Finkelstein anti-Semitic is NOT calling Saudis such. I wonder why. "<br /><br />D clearly does consider saudi anti-semitic, in his book the case for israel he criticised many nations in the region for their anti jew attitudes.<br /><br />"Under this principle, the first country studied would be Saudi Arabia. That tyrannical kingdom practices gender apartheid to an extreme, relegating women to an extremely low status. Indeed, a prominent Saudi Imam recently issued a fatwa declaring that anyone who advocates women working alongside men or otherwise compromises with absolute gender apartheid is subject to execution. The Saudis also practice apartheid based on sexual orientation, executing and imprisoning gay and lesbian Saudis. Finally, Saudi Arabia openly practices religious apartheid. It has special roads for "Muslims only." It discriminates against Christians, refusing them the right to practice their religion openly. And needless to say, it doesn't allow Jews the right to live in Saudi Arabia, to own property or even (with limited exceptions) to enter the country. Now that's apartheid with a vengeance."Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-53949388968906354362012-01-24T12:16:23.153-05:002012-01-24T12:16:23.153-05:00(and even spelled it right the first time)
But fai...(and even spelled it right the first time)<br />But failed at the second :/Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-42091461516804684132012-01-24T12:03:50.823-05:002012-01-24T12:03:50.823-05:00"Arnold, just to see why DM calling Saudis th..."Arnold, just to see why DM calling Saudis the same threat to Israel as Iran is not serious"<br />Lidia your argument fails on the grounds that the source is trying to mainly argue that iran is such a threat for it is trying to get a nuke and that ahmadinenejad said he wanted to wipe israel off the map, the available evidence doesnt support this, it also goes over board with highlighted irans terror links, its kind of odd that you who seems to oppose what you term zionist rhetoric then turn around and use it as a source when you yourself dont find it reliable.<br /><br />Again as i said many times before my position is that israel has poor relations with both, this is accurate.<br /><br />The reason why it is necessary here is because arnold wanted to note a time when anyone said saudi arabia was a threat.<br /><br />"The only serious difference between Iran and SA is that Iran rulers are more or less provide the voice for their population in foreign affairs, while Saudi ones are not."<br /><br />For someone who gives out about oppressive governments who seem to be quite happy to turn around and provide some back up to those who have poor relations to those that you feel biased against. <br /><br />The truth is both governments are highly oppressive and rule non-free nations, they also simply do what they wish.<br /><br />"That rulers of Iran are mostly elected or at least are popular while rulers of SA are selected "<br /><br />Both the king of saudi arabia and the supreme leader of iran do not have systems which would allow the people to remove them against their will.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-72898605341043548862012-01-24T12:01:03.404-05:002012-01-24T12:01:03.404-05:00OK, I get it. DM claims then BOTH SA and Iran are ...OK, I get it. DM claims then BOTH SA and Iran are not electing the highest rulers (I guess, does USA ? - it is a joke). So, if Iran rulers do not like USA and Israel, and Saudis are openly USA lackeys and are NOT a threat to Israel unlike Iran, it should be explained by another reason - maybe the Moon influence (a joke)<br /><br />But I esp. like the mention of Turkey. Sure, relations with Israel by Turkey are getting better every day (a joke). Of course, Turkey for some time has been a democracy (notwithstanding USA being unpleased with nasty democracy getting into way of USA colonial war against Iraq). But as far as I know, so-called Western democracy usually has a very odd way about fulfillment of people's will. For ex, the majority of the USA, as far as I know, do not want to prolong war in Afghanistan quite for some time (several years, at least, just as it started turn sour for USA). The answer of democratically elected highest rulers? More war, of course. Turkey rulers, being more "Western" than Iran, sure is not as fast in turning against Israel, but it is clear, that at least doing it, they got big support from the population. <br /><br />Another little detail about Turkey's "democracy" is it being for long time a hostage for military, which is not averse to coups, usually fully backed, if not worse, by USA. The military is not against Israel, so elected rulers were heavily pressed not to speak out against Israel and not move against it. Lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-88953864658555288712012-01-24T11:43:26.092-05:002012-01-24T11:43:26.092-05:00Now about anti-Semitism which Zionists see mostly ...Now about anti-Semitism which Zionists see mostly in their foes (even if there is not any). Notorious propaganda film called <br /><br />"Unmasked: Judeophobia" includes, of course, long before refuted claim that Ahmadinejad said that " Israel must be wiped off the map<br /><br />", but NOT includes real examples of Saudi anti-Semitism. Dershovitz, of course, took a part in this big fat lie, but NOT in role of anti-Saudi critic. By the way, the main premise of the piece is that every time somebody does not like Israel (esp, when non-Jews do it, even though they are also not let off the hook), it is based on "irrational" hate of Jews and nothing else. On the other hand, authors admit that those "Arabs" tend to see ME reality through the lens of imperialism and so on - a very nasty habit, of course. Lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-78475949812061723542012-01-24T11:32:55.397-05:002012-01-24T11:32:55.397-05:001) Israel is claiming that Iran is a threat. They ...1) Israel is claiming that Iran is a threat. They could lie WHY it is a threat, the truth being Iran as an independent state COULD be, by reason of its people being hostile to Zionism. Arnold rightly says that Zionists are afraid not as much as of actual bomb in hands of Iran, as of loss of monopoly of "possibility" of nukes in the ME. Israel wants a freedom of threaten and attack at will. Iran is a threat to THIS freedom of Israel. All else, including DM words are just words.<br /><br />2) Israel is NOT claiming SA as a threat. Again, Arnold explained WHY Zionists are not afraid of SA -lackey of USA. All else - see. 1) Lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-60978826232380973342012-01-24T10:57:17.695-05:002012-01-24T10:57:17.695-05:00Dont worry about it, spelling mistakes happen some...Dont worry about it, spelling mistakes happen sometimes, however it was a poor showing on your part to imply that i misread your piece when in fact it was you who made the error.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-53905067982068075952012-01-24T10:51:08.261-05:002012-01-24T10:51:08.261-05:00"Zionists are NOT aware of DM knowledge about..."Zionists are NOT aware of DM knowledge about Iran being about as much threat as SA :)"<br />Am i to take it than when the israeli government now makes public claims about something you and arnold will now believe it? Odd considering how arnold has previously posted pieces showing how iran despite israels claims does not appear to be building a nuclear weapon.<br /><br />The truth is that even according to the israeli intelligence sources and contrary to netanyahus threat claims irans nuclear weapon threat is not there for the iranian government has not even decided to pursue such an action.<br /><br />"Zionists do nothing likewise regarding Saudis."<br /><br />Actually various zionists are often critical of saudi arabia, as i pointed out before they consider it an apartheid state, they were very much against weapon sale to saudi arabia in the past and the two nations have actually been in a state of war against one another.<br /><br />"would agree that Iran is as much threat as SA."<br /><br />I dont know if i would go that far, again my position is basically that both nations have poor relations and that israel tends to hype threats towards it and that certain people tend to buy into it. My view is also that various zionists are perfectly aware that iran is not a major threat but are just claiming so for political reasons.<br /><br />Would you really consider iran to be much of a threat? No real chance of a military war between the two and irans nuclear programme doesnt appear to be designed for weapons.<br /><br />"Saudi royals do NOT lift a finger to harm Israel"<br /><br />Again the saudis have actually in the past declared war on israel, they have provided funds to violent anti-israeli groups and tried to damage israels economy by cutting off relations. Also saudi arabia is working to heal the rift between hamas and fatah should would help unite Palestinians against israel.Dermot Moloneyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/Dermot-Moloney/100001531671384noreply@blogger.com