tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post3197277134846371415..comments2024-01-21T02:42:13.447-05:00Comments on Middle East Reality: How does Al-Qaeda keep recruiting intelligent Western-educated operatives?Arnold Evanshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11445744338502151561noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-2011200980964637682009-12-29T15:08:42.993-05:002009-12-29T15:08:42.993-05:00Add The Washington Post, which has also gone throu...Add The Washington Post, which has also gone through Abdul Muttallab's online posts, to the score of finding no trace of the word "Israel" or even "Jews." Read it and weep. Loneliness appears to have been his problem, if we go by what was <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/28/AR2009122802492_pf.html" rel="nofollow">posted</a>.<br /><br />Again, Arnold, stop trying simplify things. You hate Israel so you project Israel into things that, just perhaps, have nothing to do with things. That says something about your predilections but does nothing to get at the truth.N. Friedmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-36849870208655968172009-12-29T14:29:28.775-05:002009-12-29T14:29:28.775-05:00Arnold,
We also have these postings allegedly by ...Arnold,<br /><br />We also have these <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/29/web-postings-umar-farouk-abdulmutallab" rel="nofollow">postings</a> allegedly by Abdul Muttallab that are reprinted by <i>The Guardian</i>. They posting do not appear to pertain to Israel. They pertain the to perfidy of Muslim rulers. And, given the point of view of <i>The Guardian</i>, were there anything in the man's background that relates to Israel, it would be front and center.<br /><br />So, your contention that the man was recruited due to Israel is belied by the lack of interest of the man in Israel.<br /><br />I trust that you have to admit that the connection here to Israel is not supported by evidence.N. Friedmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-83907296345966225842009-12-29T09:29:56.914-05:002009-12-29T09:29:56.914-05:00But Arnold,
Your entire argument is premised on I...But Arnold,<br /><br />Your entire argument is premised on Israel being the reason for the attack. That, after all, is what you claim.<br /><br />Consider: if this were really about Israel, would not the propaganda by the bomber and his backers relate to Israel? And, if not, why not? You have no answer for this.N. Friedmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-69759246455294211562009-12-29T04:05:04.638-05:002009-12-29T04:05:04.638-05:00Friedman is obviously a troll and the one rule to ...Friedman is obviously a troll and the one rule to follow with such people is:Please do NOT feed the troll!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-75378258985155827152009-12-29T01:17:52.097-05:002009-12-29T01:17:52.097-05:00Aaah Friedman:
You very often give painstakingly ...Aaah Friedman:<br /><br />You very often give painstakingly detailed refutations of arguments I do not make. This is no exception. My real argument is on this page, any interested reader can just scroll up and read it. Your presentation of my argument is just not a reasonable interpretation. The effort you put into refuting your presentation of my argument is really wasted, but use your time as you see fit.<br /><br />I really don't feel like retyping what I've already typed but I think what I've already wrote already addresses your concerns and is consistent with what you are presenting as counterexamples.<br /><br />Anyway, carry on.Arnold Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11445744338502151561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-14180473966323230022009-12-28T20:45:00.595-05:002009-12-28T20:45:00.595-05:00It gets worse for the "It's Israel" ...It gets worse for the "It's Israel" theory. A group called al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula forgot to read Arnold's script when announcing why the attack heard. According to the London <i>Telegraph</i>:<br /><br /><i>The group added that the failed attack was in response to US attacks on the group in Yemen, while it also urged the killing of Western embassy workers in the region as part of an "all out war on Crusaders".</i><br /><br />So, it is due to Israel but those who might make propaganda hay out of the matter claim something else. Imagine that. They cannot even get their propaganda straight. And, that is true whether the group was really behind the attack or is just another Islamist group wanting to claim responsibility for the unsuccessful attempt at mayhem.<br /><br />One thing we can be sure of: if there were any benefit to blaming Israel, such would be good propaganda for people like Arnold. Yet, Islamists resist the temptation. Could it be that Arnold is wrong and does not understand what motivates Islamists who want to blow people up? Sure looks like it.N. Friedmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-32169321325418776592009-12-28T13:22:26.754-05:002009-12-28T13:22:26.754-05:00The point, lidia, is that Arnold's assertions ...The point, lidia, is that Arnold's assertions are wrong, since the terrorist screamed about Afghanistan, not Israel.<br /><br />One would think - since Arnold is so sure that Israel is behind what happened - that the perpetrator would follow script and blame Israel. That, however, did not happen. The man screamed about Afghanistan.N. Friedmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-32551464542417967362009-12-28T13:09:36.764-05:002009-12-28T13:09:36.764-05:00NF is took a permanent job here, it seems
Anyway,...NF is took a permanent job here, it seems<br /><br />Anyway, Arnold is right - Israel is a poison for the ME and beyond. <br /><br />Now, NF is (as always) lies. Germany was NOT a victim of a colonial occupation, but an imperialist colonialist state beaten by its imperialist rivals. Palestinians, on the other hand, were and are victims of imperialist colonialist rape of their land. Germany could be imagined not to be colonialist, but Israel must go (and it will)lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-38458582495421877222009-12-28T11:13:17.786-05:002009-12-28T11:13:17.786-05:00Arnold
The UK paper, The Guardian, reports the fo...Arnold<br /><br />The UK paper, The Guardian, <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/27/abdul-muttalab-flight-253-terrorist-al-qaida" rel="nofollow">reports</a> the following: "Another passenger, Syed Jafri, said: "The suspected terrorist was said to have been yelling and swearing and 'screaming about Afghanistan'." <br /><br />By contrast, you assert:<br /><br /><i>How did an educated Muslim son of a millionaire such as Umar Farouk Abdul Muttallab become willing to take on an Al Qaeda mission?<br /><br />A simple one word answer: Israel.</i><br /><br />So, according to you, a man obsessed about Israel in a cause obsessed about Israel tries to down a plane and, when overcome by fellow passengers, screams about Afghanistan. Perhaps, he forgot to take the script with him. <br /><br />Actually, the issue here is that your motive is to attack Israel and to assign blame to Israel whether or not Israel had one wit to do with events. <br /><br />The reason that most Americans believe differently than you is that Americans assume that, whatever the real motive of Mr. Mutallab, if it really involved Israel, then his statements would mention Israel. Instead, he screamed about Afghanistan.<br /><br />As for what is really behind all of this, the word is the Muslim religious revival movement. It had its origins in the demise of the Caliphate and gained its original adherents - a million in the early years - in reaction to its demise. And, from the beginning (even before Israel existed), Jews were said to be the force behind Ataturk (or, in some versions, Ataturk was said to be a secret Jew). So, there is a connection between Islamists and Jews that is more important than Israel because, to Islamists, the Caliphate is more important than Israel.<br /><br />I do not deny that Islamists hate Israel. However, it has, to most vehement Islamists, been a second rank issue, far behind restoring the Caliphate.<br /><br />Islamists would like Israel to disappear. And the war against Israel has done a great deal in the Arab regions to revive Jihad and, interestingly and non-traditionally, as a non-state institution. But, frankly, if one reads literature written by Islamists and directed to Muslims, the obsession is not Israel. <br /><br /><br />You might read Raymond Ibrahim's interest collection of documents titled the <i>Al Qaeda Reader</i>. In it, he provides translations of al Qaeda propaganda directed to the West and first time translations of al Qaeda propaganda directed to fellow Muslims. The differences are striking. Notwithstanding what you think, the obsession is not Israel.<br /><br />But clearly, against Mr. Mutallab's own statements, you think he acted due to Israel. And, the evidence that contradicts the man's own statements are, please tell me? Surely, if Israel was the issue, he would be screaming, perhaps for propaganda purposes, about Israel.<br /><br />One last point. Whatever the original causes of the violent and self-destructive behavior of certain Muslims, the violence and the ideology behind it have taken on their own life. Remember the arguments in the 1930's about the horrors visited upon Germany by the Versailles Treaty; and that undoing that arguable error by granting German concessions would assuage the Nazi hostility. In fact, by the 1930's, whatever the original cause of the Nazis, that movement had taken on it own life and concessions had no real chance of success.<br /><br />So it is with your obsession with Israel. Israel, first of all, was never central to the Islamists but, second of all, even if it were, the Islamist movement has taken on a life of its own that is unlikely to be assuaged. In fact, assuaging Islamists is more likely to foment more, not less, violence.N. Friedmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-12336232781779026372009-12-27T20:12:40.409-05:002009-12-27T20:12:40.409-05:00Arab Gulf? Are you referring to the Red Sea or the...Arab Gulf? Are you referring to the Red Sea or the Persian Gulf?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com