tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post2736694322809347733..comments2024-01-21T02:42:13.447-05:00Comments on Middle East Reality: Hopefully a wrap up of my thoughts on Iran's electionArnold Evanshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11445744338502151561noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-32765111891297971992009-08-12T07:31:49.036-04:002009-08-12T07:31:49.036-04:00Regardless of what anybody thinks about the electi...Regardless of what anybody thinks about the election stats, people who want their voices heard should not be shot down, beaten, taken to prison and tortured and raped. Lets not take our eyes of the ball, this is the real issue now, not what me or you think were the true figures of the elections.<br /><br />As a side point, it is completely impossible that Ahmaghinejad won the elections. I can tell you because if you walk the streets of Tehran and ask 100 people who they voted for, maybe 1 or 2 will say ahmadinejad. This was a sham election, by a dictatorship regime, make no mistake about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-19170813309540468692009-06-25T15:29:12.048-04:002009-06-25T15:29:12.048-04:00The story, spread by the Tehran Bureau, that ballo...The story, spread by the Tehran Bureau, that ballots were removed from localities and not counted is one I may look into later.<br /><br /><i>By Saturday evening, the shock and disbelief had given way to anger that slowly turned into palpable moral outrage over what came to be believed as the theft of their election. The proof was right in the village: “Interior Ministry officials came from Shiraz, sealed the ballot boxes, and took then away even before the end of voting at 9 pm,” said Jalal. In all previous elections, a committee comprised of representative from each political faction had counted and certified the results right in the village. The unexpected change in procedures caught village monitors off guard, as it did everywhere else in the country.</i><br /><br />It turns out that Mousavi's complaint to the Guardian Council does not mention that at all.<br /><br />http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=32888Arnold Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11445744338502151561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-44068138164630084672009-06-25T10:55:56.144-04:002009-06-25T10:55:56.144-04:00Steve:
Serious doubt does not have to come from fa...Steve:<br />Serious doubt does not have to come from facts. In this case, there is an atmosphere of rumors but there are no tangible indications of fraud.<br /><br />Unless real evidence emerges of massive vote-changing - and none has arisen over two weeks - Mousavi's supporters are probably a vocal minority of Iranian society. Supporters of the side that loses being angry and disillusioned is part of democracy.<br /><br />Iran's vetting system is problem for me, but I'm not sure how the issue of preventing outside interference in Iranian elections could be better handled.Arnold Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11445744338502151561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-24323388018774324442009-06-25T10:50:07.291-04:002009-06-25T10:50:07.291-04:00Ziad:
I agree that Iranians should have a right to...Ziad:<br />I agree that Iranians should have a right to protest. That really has to be balanced though by the understanding that the right to protest has been used by US agencies as a catalyst for pro-US regime change in several countries. And it was used against Iran in 1953. A way has to be found that balances the right to be heard with the right to thwart foreign destabilization programs.<br /><br />Until there are indications beyond rumors and dashed expectations of a Mousavi victory, I can't see how the regime could justify holding a revote.<br /><br />A losing candidate can work his supporters up into an atmosphere of distrust and anger anywhere in the world. That cannot be the standard for a revote. Mondale easily could have done the same, but he'd likely be imprisoned for it if it.<br /><br />There really is no tangible evidence of a fraud, and there could be if there was a fraud, there is a major, resourceful opposing power faction to the group that supposedly orchestrated this fraud.Arnold Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11445744338502151561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-84772079145982315792009-06-23T11:56:12.953-04:002009-06-23T11:56:12.953-04:00While it is plausible the Ahmadinejad won, it is a...While it is plausible the Ahmadinejad won, it is also plausible that he lost. If the democratic structures are so screwed up in a country that there is such serous doubt of WIDESPREAD vote and voter problems there can be no confidence in the democracy in that country. <br /><br />You don't mention the widespread reports of "mobile voting" with zero supervision, not don't mention that opposition candidates voting observers were not permitted in polling places throughout the country, you don't mention the unlikelihood of Ahmadinejad winning every single precincts with nearly identical percentages regardless of the demographic or idea ideological make up and you don't mention the millions of extra unaccounted for ballots stuffing the ballot boxes.<br /><br />You write: "The reports of Mousavi's claims of irregularities seem unconvincing to me"<br /><br />Well congratulations, you are the only one still holding that opinion who can speak freely. Middle East Reality? Get real.<br /><br />Your Mondale analogy makes no sense to me at all. It is not just that the Mousavi supporters don't like Ahmadinejad or think he is corrupt. What is happening is that the Iranians are pissed off because they live in a dictatorship plain and simple. If the populace has no confidence in the democratic process then they live in a dictatorship. The illusion of democracy is gone from the Iranian people. If Ahmadinejad had won fair and square, if there were election observers, if it took more than two hours to actually count these ballots from around the whole country (or if the ballots were actually counted at all) and there weren't reports of MILLIONS of extra ballots and the supports of Mousavi lost, there would be only minor rallies and things would die down. In this case the protesters would not be on the high moral ground that they are on now.Steven in Miamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14458129967122817331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-18094626891506420272009-06-23T10:19:19.992-04:002009-06-23T10:19:19.992-04:00Arnold,
The key difference between Mondale and Mu...Arnold,<br /><br />The key difference between Mondale and Musavi is that Musavis's supporters are totally convinced, rightly or wrongly, that he truly won. No supporter of Mondale believed that. If they did, possibly they would have protested.<br /><br />At this point, it is no longer about who truly won. It is about basic rights. Iranians should be allowed to protest ***EVEN IF THEY ARE WRONG*** as long as the protests are peaceful. And if they are not, the government must distinguish between vandals and legitimate protesters.<br /><br />Iran's government now must move to gain legitimacy for itself, before the world and, much more importantly amongst its disgruntled populace.<br /><br />The only way I can see them doing that is through new elections, this time with highly extensive neutral monitoring. That would advance Iran's interests no matter who won.Ziadnoreply@blogger.com