tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post1954986058202013030..comments2024-01-21T02:42:13.447-05:00Comments on Middle East Reality: The case against Israel, or why Israel should not existArnold Evanshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11445744338502151561noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-50935279183068096642013-08-10T08:23:54.798-04:002013-08-10T08:23:54.798-04:00Arnold isn't talking just about the Palestinia...Arnold isn't talking just about the Palestinians, but about the other Arabs (and the Iranians) which the West keeps down for Israel's sake.George Cartynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-9363044820669470612013-08-10T05:56:26.025-04:002013-08-10T05:56:26.025-04:00You didn't read the original post carefully. C...You didn't read the original post carefully. Choose at least one sentence in the original post, quote it from the initial capital letter until the closing period, and explain why you believe that sentence is incorrect. If you are unable to do that, then you do not have a substantial disagreement with the actual statements of the post.Arnold Evanshttp://mideastreality.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-80249453961453523222013-08-10T04:37:03.035-04:002013-08-10T04:37:03.035-04:00Hundreds of millions? The population of Palestine ...Hundreds of millions? The population of Palestine when Israel was established was less then a million. And about 40% 0f that small population was jewish. Yes, people were displaced, but hundreds of millions is a gross exaggeration.Rob Scherernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-85990560502884350232013-08-02T12:00:58.980-04:002013-08-02T12:00:58.980-04:00Sure, but Zionist Jews are colonial settlers in Pa...Sure, but Zionist Jews are colonial settlers in Palestine. And Anglo-Saxes were Germanic but Wells is not an "English" colony (even though Ireland was), so you could read my answer as being about "Germanic" girls and so on.lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-8464246525748571852013-07-31T09:09:52.144-04:002013-07-31T09:09:52.144-04:00Good points, but I never mentioned Germans -- the ...Good points, but I never mentioned Germans -- the "Germanic settlers" I'm referring to are the <i>English</i> people.George Cartynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-59168642081874189152013-07-31T07:09:49.765-04:002013-07-31T07:09:49.765-04:00The United States did not kill half a million Iraq...The United States did not kill half a million Iraqi children for oil. The United States killed those children for Israel.<br /><br />http://personal.rhul.ac.uk/uhte/014/Truth%20and%20Death.pdf ,seems to show that arnold isnt entirely accurate in his claims.Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-1515408067757019512013-06-19T18:11:05.528-04:002013-06-19T18:11:05.528-04:00Pretty much sums up US foreign policy originating ...Pretty much sums up US foreign policy originating with PNAC in the later 1990'sOscarShanknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-26017219592111763052013-06-02T01:47:57.901-04:002013-06-02T01:47:57.901-04:00Would you agree that the Welsh live under aparteid...Would you agree that the Welsh live under aparteid laws? Are they not permitted to marry the Welsh from abroad of Welles? Are they called "demographic threat" to German state by the officials of such state? Is there a campaign to prevent German girls marry or date the Welsh? And so on...<br />You see, the difference between Palestinians in Israel and, say, Chechens in Russia is that Chechens have the same citizen status as Russians in in Russian Federation. There could be problems, a lot of them, but Russia is NOT an aparteid state.lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-43709546342591818902013-06-01T11:39:43.936-04:002013-06-01T11:39:43.936-04:00Would you argue that England is an illegitimate Ge...Would you argue that England is an illegitimate Germanic settler colony on stolen Welsh land?George Cartynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-9898598624453312382013-06-01T11:34:22.866-04:002013-06-01T11:34:22.866-04:00IQ is a sham, and I hope you use it only as a joke...IQ is a sham, and I hope you use it only as a joke. And robots are expensive, and cannot be used profitably in some cases, or agrobusiness in USA, for ex, would be rid of "undesirable" Latinos for good long ago. <br />Of course, the racism of Zionists are a big driver, but still they live in capitalism and need some profit (even with all foreign money they got)lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-58489662984653426082013-06-01T11:23:32.821-04:002013-06-01T11:23:32.821-04:00Ashkenazi Jews are supposedly considerably more in...Ashkenazi Jews are supposedly considerably more intelligent (120 IQ) than the average. Why haven't they used this high intelligence as the Japanese (another highly xenophobic society) have done, and developed robots to eliminate the need for any kind of immigrant labour?George Cartynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-75675702935866159332013-05-31T23:30:44.655-04:002013-05-31T23:30:44.655-04:00Good to see you again, Arnold.
Regrettably, the i...Good to see you again, Arnold.<br /><br />Regrettably, the issue has now moved beyond Palestine and any resolution, be it two states or a bi-national state. Now the issue is US/EU direct involvement to ensure everlasting Israeli dominance throughout the entire region. This started with the US invasion of Iraq, continued with the 'no fly zone' over Libya and is now about the destabilization of Syria. <br /><br />In other words the US/EU plan on behalf of Israel is to mire the entire region in sectarian strife and to break down the stronger states into mini-statelets, easily manipulated or blackmailed. The project has come up against a strong wall in Syria and hopefully, it will be turned back. If it is not, the cancer will spread to EVERY country in the region. Including those nations which, by close association with the United States, thought they would be spared. Meaning that, after Syria, Jordan will be destabilized in order to allow the ethnic cleansing of more Palestinians from Israel. King Abdullah, either through stupidity, cowardice, or simply because he has no choice, will help tie the noose that will be used to hang him. Saudi Arabia could be next. While one cannot imagine a more docile and submissive handmaiden to US policies, there is simply no telling when a revolution might bring a Khomeini like figure to power. From the US/Israeli point of view, no need to take chances.<br /><br />Hence the importance of the battle in Syria and why Iran and Hezbollah, hopefully with continued Russian help, will commit whatever resources are needed to win.<br /><br /><br />LysanderLysandernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-27874887548889956412013-05-27T01:26:42.264-04:002013-05-27T01:26:42.264-04:00Yes, this is right too, but for ex. building and c...Yes, this is right too, but for ex. building and caring for elderly jobs used a lot of non-Jews and non-citizen workers. In decent Israel movie "Meduzot" one of heroines is a Filipina caring worker.lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-66723951702162747532013-05-26T14:04:53.605-04:002013-05-26T14:04:53.605-04:00You may be right, but I thought the main character...You may be right, but I thought the main characteristic of "undesirable" jobs is not that they are dirty or dangerous (many workers in dirty or dangerous jobs have/had great pride in their work) but that they failed to pay a reliable living wage due to being inherently part-time (such as cleaning jobs) and/or seasonal (such as agricultural and tourism-related jobs).George Cartyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/George-Carty/669388594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-64910896512989068212013-05-26T12:47:10.162-04:002013-05-26T12:47:10.162-04:00George, every settler colony needs slaves or semi-...George, every settler colony needs slaves or semi-slaves. Zionists from the beginning tried to import enough Yemeni Jews in order not to hire Palestinians. They still were not enough to man all menial jobs.. Now Zionists are importing workers from Europe (Romania), Asia and so on. Even though a lot of former Russian professionals with uni and higher qualifications turned cleaners in this "Jewish" state, Zionists still need a lot of workforce for dirty and dangerous jobs. Now they are whining about Africans threatening their racial purity (sounds familiar?). On the other hand, there were reports about Palestinians in Israel welcoming Africans into their communities. <br /><br />In short, as usual, Zionism looks even more aparteid-like than some would think.lidianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-27098283729232499082013-05-26T04:02:16.823-04:002013-05-26T04:02:16.823-04:00The racist regime in South Africa was in a weaker ...The racist regime in South Africa was in a weaker position than Israel, because they needed to keep the Blacks around to use as cheap labour.<br /><br />Israel doesn't need the Palestinians for anything -- if it needs cheap labour it can use Mizrahi Jews or Russian immigrants for that purpose.George Cartyhttp://www.facebook.com/people/George-Carty/669388594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-59309694687463897002013-05-25T04:38:33.206-04:002013-05-25T04:38:33.206-04:00I`m very glad to see you back arnold,I had feared ...I`m very glad to see you back arnold,I had feared you had gone away for goodsinevanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-28373225948225938892013-05-20T17:47:49.511-04:002013-05-20T17:47:49.511-04:00>Now, I am not going to talk to Zionists - it i...>Now, I am not going to talk to Zionists - it is useless<br /><br />In life one sometimes has to communicate with those that hold different views, this is healthy otherwise one will find oneself caught in an echo chamber.<br /><br />In regards to apartheid as Richard Goldstone has pointed out <br /><br />"In Israel, there is no apartheid. Nothing there comes close to the definition of apartheid under the 1998 Rome Statute: “Inhumane acts ... committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.” Israeli Arabs — 20 percent of Israel’s population — vote, have political parties and representatives in the Knesset and occupy positions of acclaim, including on its Supreme Court. Arab patients lie alongside Jewish patients in Israeli hospitals, receiving identical treatment.<br /><br />To be sure, there is more de facto separation between Jewish and Arab populations than Israelis should accept. Much of it is chosen by the communities themselves. Some results from discrimination. But it is not apartheid, which consciously enshrines separation as an ideal. In Israel, equal rights are the law, the aspiration and the ideal; inequities are often successfully challenged in court."<br /><br />No doubt they are discriminatory practices in israel as they are in many countries, but their isnt an overall systematic plan operating for the sole purpose of keeping groups separate, it is why arabs in israel do have a vote, so if they are discriminatory practices they can be challenged.rags to ragsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-36401606183458144322013-05-20T13:03:10.853-04:002013-05-20T13:03:10.853-04:00"The ANC did not support South Africa's r..."The ANC did not support South Africa's right to exist as a white state."<br /><br /><br />They did not, they did however support the existence of their nation itself, they just wanted everyone to have a vote, ergo an israeli version of the anc would do the same, it would support the right of its nation to exist but also advocate the rights of others to be able to vote.<br /><br /><br />Israeli arabs however have the right to vote already, this puts a bit of a dent in the israel-south african analogy.<br /><br /><br />"allows the majority muslim population to vote for a government"<br /><br /><br />A problem here, the majority of israelis are jews, even the majority of israeli arabs do not support the end of the israeli state.<br /><br /><br />"The ANC explicitly rejected a multiple state solution and the right for a white state to exist."<br /><br /><br />No doubt and israeli version would also be against israel being broken up.<br /><br /><br />The actual anc itself is not against the existence of israel and is supportive of steps which it feels will lead to a two state solution as shown by their press releases.<br /><br /><br />>We congratulate the Palestinian people for being granted a new non-member observer status in the UN General Assembly. We view this as an important step towards the attainment of a two-state solution between Israel and Palestine.<br /><br /><br />ANC Press Statement.<br /><br /><br />"In your last response, maybe you can provide a quotation of me that shows what you are talking about here: "The issue is whether israel is a legal state, you claimed otherwise "<br /><br /><br />They are those who see israel as being legal and those who see the opposite.<br /><br /><br />From your last paragraph i presumed that you belonged to the latter.<br /><br /><br />Was I mistaken? Do you belong to the former?rags to ragsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-57317499279326607522013-05-20T11:30:53.705-04:002013-05-20T11:30:53.705-04:00The ANC did not support South Africa's right t...The ANC did not support South Africa's right to exist as a white state. If Israel accepts the refugees and allows the majority muslim population to vote for a government, all of Hamas' demands, and those of most people in the region will have been met by that failure and defeat of Zionism.<br /><br />The ANC explicitly rejected a multiple state solution and the right for a white state to exist.<br /><br />You can respond once more before I feel your position has been expressed and further posts by you in this thread deleted. <br /><br />In your last response, maybe you can provide a quotation of me that shows what you are talking about here: "The issue is whether israel is a legal state, you claimed otherwise "Arnold Evanshttp://mideastreality.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-86716321496934160832013-05-20T11:09:59.389-04:002013-05-20T11:09:59.389-04:00The issue is whether israel is a legal state, you ...The issue is whether israel is a legal state, you claimed otherwise but this doesnt hold out when one observes the rules and facts of international law.<br /><br />By doing this you help to allow the likes of israeli settlers who also pick and choose parts of international law to further their own illegal goals.<br /><br />In order to prove finkelstein as wrong you would have to show that he is mistaken when he claimed that israel was a legal state.<br /><br />This has not been done....<br /><br />Due to both south africa and israel being legal states they have the right to exist, they however do not have the right to create policies which deprives a number of its citizens with the right to vote.<br /><br />The anc and hamas also arent the most comparable of groups, the anc supported the existence of south africa, they just wanted everyone to have the right to vote.<br /><br />If an anc style group came about in israel they would support israels right to exist just as the anc did with south africa, they would just want everyone to have a vote.<br /><br /><br />But as it has been explained above, israel already has this.rags to ragsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-51727070661868549412013-05-20T09:27:33.519-04:002013-05-20T09:27:33.519-04:00Whether israels existence is moral is a personal v...Whether israels existence is moral is a personal viewpoint, but the idea that its existence is illegal is wrong.<br /><br />Under international law it is a legal state.<br /><br />Norman Finkelstein has pointed out the flaw in such arguments and how such arguments actually help to strengthen certain israelis who themselves like to pick and choose parts of international law to their liking while ignoring the parts which they do not.<br /><br />From Finkelstein " But international law is clear that Israel is a state having the same rights and obligations as any other state, and that the two-state settlement is the only basis for resolving the conflict."<br /><br />"Yes. If one picks and chooses with international law, it enables Israel’s apologists to claim that the Palestinian solidarity movement is hypocritical and not to be trusted."<br /><br />These are good points to note for those concerned in furthering the cause of helping the palestinian people.rags to ragsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-28310831143870573682013-05-19T10:53:36.865-04:002013-05-19T10:53:36.865-04:00Samuel. We've again reached the point where yo...Samuel. We've again reached the point where you're writing things that don't need responses. That's fine, I'll delete posts you make in this thread beginning now.<br /><br />You are free to comment on future threads.<br /><br />Readers I think now have a fair view of your arguments regarding this topic.Arnold Evanshttp://mideastreality.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-40555441779124595782013-05-19T10:22:06.877-04:002013-05-19T10:22:06.877-04:00From observing your comments lidia i have to recom...From observing your comments lidia i have to recommend that you cut out the very teenage action of addressing another whilst communicating a dig at a third party.<br /><br /><br />Its both obvious and childish.samuelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34135100.post-82281312105301111122013-05-19T10:16:55.770-04:002013-05-19T10:16:55.770-04:00>You are very patient, Arnold.
Arnold certainl...>You are very patient, Arnold.<br /><br />Arnold certainly isnt.<br /><br />> I suppose, for Samuel it meant that they were NOT discriminated.<br /><br />You suppose?<br /><br />Your ability to process the viewpoints of others is somewhat lacking lidia.<br /><br />Blacks not being able to vote in the main south african elections and have a say in the running of their country was discrimination.<br /><br />This is obvious.<br /><br />However arab citizens of israel do have the right to vote in the proper elections, what also affects the viewpoint of both yourself and arnold is that only a minority of israels arab citizens who actually live in israel consider their conditions as apartheid, most do not.<br /><br /><br />This is pretty damning.samuelnoreply@blogger.com